Elizabeth Panting maiden name help please.

[Dammit6000]

Hi, would someone please be able to open the below record on Ancestory please as I currently have FMP subscription. I'm mostly hoping there is a birth year/age and death date. Also does anyone have any tips on finding maiden name of a mother when your ancestor is not from the first marriage? This appears the case with Elizabeth below.

London, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-2003
Death, Burial, Cemetery & Obituaries
View

Elizabeth Panting

xxx xxxx

1854

[Darksecretz]

Hiya, this is what the register says:


Name Elizabeth Panting
Death Age 26
Record Type Burial
Birth Date abt 1828
Death Date 1854
Burial Date 29 Mar 1854
Burial Place St George in the East, Tower Hamlets, England
Register Type Parish Register

You could try looking for her birth record in the GRO indexes, it 'should' give MMN if she was registered there... also if there are any other full siblings to Elizabeth you can also search those to confirm MMN. x

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp#Results

you will need to register for free with GRO, and searching is also free. You only incur a charge if you order a digital image/PDF or cert. Images are £3 I think PDFs are £8 and certs are £12. It's been a while since I ordered PDFs/Certs so they may be a bit more, not sure.

[Darksecretz]

Hiya, this is what the register says:


Name Elizabeth Panting
Death Age 26
Record Type Burial
Birth Date abt 1828
Death Date 1854
Burial Date 29 Mar 1854
Burial Place St George in the East, Tower Hamlets, England
Register Type Parish Register

You could try looking for her birth record in the GRO indexes, it 'should' give MMN if she was registered there... also if there are any other full siblings to Elizabeth you can also search those to confirm MMN. x

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp#Results

you will need to register for free with GRO, and searching is also free. You only incur a charge if you order a digital image/PDF or cert. Images are £3 I think PDFs are £8 and certs are £12. It's been a while since I ordered PDFs/Certs so they may be a bit more, not sure.

Sorry my head isn't working right atm. I see she was born in 1828... so she won't be in the GRO register. You should be able to find her parents marriage, this will then give you her MN?

did her parents have any other children after 1837? that could be a way to go.

[Dammit6000]

Hi everyone, thanks for this. No this is not my Elizabeth Panting. She was born in apprx 1794. She married Joseph Panting/Panton somewhere around 1820 and they had a child Caroline Amelia Elizabeth. The marriage record i have is 1819 for Elizabeth Donald, however parties listed as widowed and widower.

[Darksecretz]

Hi everyone, thanks for this. No this is not my Elizabeth Panting. She was born in apprx 1794. She married Joseph Panting/Panton somewhere around 1820 and they had a child Caroline Amelia Elizabeth. The marriage record i have is 1819 for Elizabeth Donald, however parties listed as widowed and widower.

Hi, do you know where they lived/died etc.. I can have a look for you. x

[Dammit6000]

There are two census records in London - 1841 Whitechapel - John Panting (b1763) / Eliza Panting (b1794) and 1851 Whitechapel - Joseph Panting / Elizabeth Panting. Daughter Caroline had already left for Australia before 1841 census. Thanks for your help.

[Darksecretz]

There are two census records in London - 1841 Whitechapel - John Panting (b1763) / Eliza Panting (b1794) and 1851 Whitechapel - Joseph Panting / Elizabeth Panting. Daughter Caroline had already left for Australia before 1841 census. Thanks for your help.

I've found the two census, though I'm having a bit of trouble making out what Josephs occupation was on the 1851 census. I can see it says XXXX Maker.
The 1841 gives his occupation as a Carpenter.

I've also seen the marriage for Joseph/Elizabeth. Have you found a death for Mr. Donald in London? this may lead you to his and Elizabeths marriage. I see that she has given her POB as City of London

1841: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...ecords/7835873

1851:https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...929895&ssrc=pt

[Darksecretz]

I know this is a long shot but maybe try searching marriages in London with Elizabeth XX and XX Donald, if she married around 1814 and he [Donald] had died by 1819 then that is a very narrow window to search. I have seen quite a few McDonald marriages, but atm I'm looking at Donald.

[Darksecretz]

Have you done a DNA test at all?

[Dammit6000]

Hi Julie, many thanks for helping out. Yes I have found a marriage between William Donald and Eliz Young in 1816 and two children, but can't see a death for William Donald. Also can't see a clear birth for Elizabeth Young in 1794. This has been a really difficult puzzle to crack. How would a DNA test help?

[Darksecretz]

Hi Julie, many thanks for helping out. Yes I have found a marriage between William Donald and Eliz Young in 1816 and two children, but can't see a death for William Donald. Also can't see a clear birth for Elizabeth Young in 1794. This has been a really difficult puzzle to crack. How would a DNA test help?

It may give you some clear pointers for Elizabeths first marriage, I did see that they had a child William and when he married he stated his father was dead. I'm a bit stumped atm I couldn't see a likely death for William Sr. either, it may be that they 'said' they were widowed but in reality just couldn't live together any more as man and wife. Divorce was very expensive back then, so the easiest option was to say you were widowed/widower.

I have spotted a tree too on Ancestry, BUT this person has Donald as Elizabeths MN and gone off on a tangent adding Donald parents etc... so not much help there I'm afraid.

I'm not that 'up' on DNA tracking, though we do have a few people on here that have more of an idea than me...

would you like me to edit your original title? [request] to something more fitting to your specific query? happy to do so. x

[Dammit6000]

It may give you some clear pointers for Elizabeths first marriage, I did see that they had a child William and when he married he stated his father was dead. I'm a bit stumped atm I couldn't see a likely death for William Sr. either, it may be that they 'said' they were widowed but in reality just couldn't live together any more as man and wife. Divorce was very expensive back then, so the easiest option was to say you were widowed/widower.

I have spotted a tree too on Ancestry, BUT this person has Donald as Elizabeths MN and gone off on a tangent adding Donald parents etc... so not much help there I'm afraid.

I'm not that 'up' on DNA tracking, though we do have a few people on here that have more of an idea than me...

would you like me to edit your original title? [request] to something more fitting to your specific query? happy to do so. x

=========================
Yes please edit the title as you like. I just wasn;t sure how ethical it was asking for info inside a paid site. I will keep searching for Elizabeth and update here if I find anything. Thanks for your help.

[PhotoFamily]

Caroline's baptism gives her mother's middle name as "Ann"

[PhotoFamily]

I'm not finding this marriage on Ancestry, but it's on FS:
Elizabeth Young marriage to William Donald on 12 Mar 1816 in Saint Botolph's Church Aldgate, London, England, United Kingdom.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ78-MNP?lang=en

Caroline was baptised St Botolph, Aldgate, City of London, England

Seems promising, but not certain.

Other trees seem to think her MN was Donovan, and Ancestry keeps pushing those records at me.

Link to William Donald/Elizabeth Young marriage on Ancestry

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1623/records/1296698

Nothing profound - one witness is a witness to another marriage, too (church warden?) and the other witness is James Young.

[PhotoFamily]

...This has been a really difficult puzzle to crack. How would a DNA test help?

Genetic genealogy is a bootstrap approach. Your match(es) and you try to find a common ancestor that could have created a matching DNA segment. Generally, the more DNA that you "share" with your match, the closer the connection (commonly known as the Most Recent Common Ancestor, or MRCA) is to both of you.

https://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA#Introduction_to_Autosomal_DNA

Of course, you have to have match(es) from the desired ancestor(s) for the technique to work. Most databases have a lot of DNA "kits" from the US, and those from UK/Australia/Canada have increased in recent times.

Also, there are privacy concerns when you do DNA testing. Sometimes you find relatives you didn't know that you have - some may even be quite close!

[PhotoFamily]

Possible death of William Young, but he was a bachelor on the marriage record. There would have been an age difference with Elizabeth, too:

William Donald

48 (age)

Burial

abt 1770

1818

15 Nov 1818

All Saints, Poplar, Tower Hamlets, England

[PhotoFamily]

Possible baptism? but someone would have to say whether it qualifies for the 1851's "city of London" birthplace:

Elizabeth, daughter of William Young & Ann Young, was born on 15 June 1794 and baptised on 19 October 1794 in St James, Piccadilly (St James, Westminster), London, Westminster, England.

"Westminster, London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1558-1812"<br/>
City of Westminster Archives Centre; London, England; Westminster Church of England Parish Registers; Reference: STJ/PR/1/6

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61865/records/1976816?tid=177226501&pid=152651138268&queryId=37d cd432-b5c2-4adc-bac6-130ca304674f&_phsrc=eWY76&_phstart=successSource

This child does not have a middle name, so might not explain why Caroline's baptism shows Elizabeth with a middle name of Ann. But this child's mother's name is Ann.

[teasie]

Yes I have found a marriage between William Donald and Eliz Young in 1816 and two children,

It would be helpful to others if you gave the full details of the marriage and the children / baptisms, otherwise all of us have to go and look up the information you already have, with the risk that we might go wrong.

There's mention somewhere of the son marrying too, but again no details of when, where, who to, father's occupation who etc.

I'm happy to help whenever I can, but its rather frustrating to have to start from scratch when information is already known but not fully shared ☹

And on that note I'm off to start from scratch ....although I'm already puzzled by these two baptisms from the same year:

St Andrew, Holborn - 22 Dec 1816, William s/o William & Elizabeth Donald, Union Buildings, Leather Lane, Tinman
St Botolph, Aldgate - 26 Jun 1816, James s/o William & Elizabeth Donald, Maudlin's Rents, Revenue Officer

I'm assuming the Aldgate one is the one we're looking at, and that the daughter is this one:

St Botolph, Aldgate - 21 Jun 1818, Ann d/o William & Elizabeth DONALD, Custom House Officer

[teasie]

Sticking with the assumption that its the Aldgate / Customs House Officer you're interested in, and using the possible burial of 15 Nov 1818 from post #16, there is an article in the Public Ledger and Daily Advertiser of 14 Nov 1818:

An inquest was held at the London Hospital on the body of W M Donald, a Customs House Officer, who was so much injured by falling into the hold of a vessel, on board of which he was stationed, as to occasion his death. Verdict - Accidental Death

[Darksecretz]

teasie William Donald jr marriage:https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...ecords/2312471

bapt: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/co...=successSource

sorry I didn't put the links in - I have a lot happening in my personal life atm. [heads nowhere!] Baptism states father is a Tinman, but marriage states he is dead - no occupation given.